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Venden Seminar Notes #22 – Why Say I Do

04/11/2015 @ 4:14 pm
by dchale5050
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Baptism, & re-baptism. Hmm. So, it didn’t take the first time? (JK)

What would be a good reason to be re-baptized? Morris says a great reason is the example given in Acts. The people had learned a significant new truth and felt a need to commemorate it by getting re-baptized.

Lee starts out with a true and false quiz. Back to school folks.

True or false…

1. A church wedding changes you.

2. Getting married young makes it more likely that you’ll stay married.

3. A church wedding increases the likelihood that you’ll remain married.

4. A church wedding increases your chances of happiness in marriage.

5. A church wedding is the best evidence that the courtship was meaningful.

Quiz # 2

1. Baptism changes you.

2. Baptism when young makes it more likely that you’ll stay in the church.

3. Baptism increases the likelihood that you will stay in the church.

4. Baptism increases the likelihood that you will remain a Christian.

5. Baptism increases your chance of salvation.

6. Baptism is one of the best evidences of successful evangelism.

False is the correct answer on all of the Q’s.

The problem with baptisms in a church that ‘sets annual goals’ for increasing the membership is that salvation is now driven by the numbers game! But, salvation is based only upon a relationship with the Savior, so If an evangelist baptizes 100 people, but less than 10% of them ever show up in church it failed! Why did it fail?

Let’s Compare Baptism With Marriage.

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Peer pressure isn’t a reason why people decide to get married, yet it is often a reason why young people & others attending evangelistic series get baptized. A marriage presupposes that a relationship has been ongoing for some time. It is a love relationship that involves communication, and a lot of time spent, because you love to spend that time.

A wedding is a public announcement of a commitment to a life long relationship that is intended to last forever and bring great joy. In a marriage, the individuals involved have generally established a relationship with one another prior to making a commitment in marriage, but people are often baptized prior to establishing a genuine relationship with Christ. Why?

A marriage produces a Certificate that proves that the event of the intended commitment was witnessed and actually took place, but if no certificate was ever issued does that mean the couple who took the vows aren’t married? In the legal eyes of the state perhaps, but in the eyes of the couple they are married!

Why? Because the love relationship they are enjoying is real & they don’t need a piece of paper to prove it. The same goes for the baptismal certificate. A baptismal certificate doesn’t prove that you are a Christian. It also doesn’t prove that you have established a life saving relationship with your Savior.

It isn’t some kind of magical piece of paper that will suddenly transform your sinful nature into a perfect being who can no longer sin, any more than a marriage certificate will automatically create a perfect love between you and a stranger!

It also doesn’t guarantee that there will never be trials or problems to overcome during that love relationship. There will be battles fought, and victories won, and through it all you will find that the battles are the easiest when you stick together and fight side by side.

The thing about a marriage is that, like any relationship, it isn’t going to grow without communication and without a substantial amount of quality time spent. I know from experience what happens when two people are living in the same house, but the relationship moved out several years ago.

For a relationship to last it must be growing and that won’t happen without quality time spent. What great sorrow is caused from a failed marriage! That’s one thing I wish I had done differently, but unlike a relationship with God, the love in a marriage on this planet doesn’t come with an unconditional guarantee.

Remember what the marriage commitment is? It is for better and for worse, and no matter whether it is during a high or a low, we must hang on to each other to weather the storms, and to share in our joy, & so it is with a relationship with Jesus. When the devil throws your failures up in your face, lean on Jesus, and whatever you do, just don’t walk away in discouragement.

Who’s doing the work? Lean on Him & depend on His Power!

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Well, the Bible gives two items involved in our salvation; belief & baptism.

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I love the amplified version of the Bible translations as it takes the original word and gives every possible variation that can be derive based upon how that word is use in context. “He who relies on Jesus”, & is baptized will be saved, but he “who does not rely on Jesus” will be condemned!

There is no doubt about it folks. Belief means “adhering to, trusting in & relying on”! There is belief & then there is a saving belief. The devils believe, but do not trust. They know God is real, but they don’t rely on Him. They stopped depending on Him thousands of years ago. Now it’s to late for them to go back.

This text has relationship written all over it!

Why are the devils condemned? They thought that they could live their lives just fine apart from God, their Creator! Dumb! I thought they were supposed to be a step higher than humans, but a third of the angels blew this one real bad. At least 2/3rds of them didn’t lose their belief, trust & reliance upon God.

Well, the only way that you can get to a level of trust is by spending time with that person. No one in their right mind trusts a complete stranger these days, but over a period of time spent in many different situations, you begin to find out if that individual is trustworthy or not.

Trust,

or believing in someone,

is a by product of getting to know that person.

Do you trust God with your life?

Do you lean on Him?

Always?

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Why was baptism left out of the condemnation? Because if you don’t believe, there is no need for the baptism part, because baptism alone will save NO ONE!

So, does that mean that no one will be lost simply because they haven’t been baptized? Absolutely. Had Baptism been established before the flood? Was Noah baptized? How about Moses or Elijah or the thief on the cross?

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Webster defines it as...

Baptism = the religious rite of immersion in water, symbolizing purification from sin, or regeneration.

of

repentance = the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse. “each person who turns to God in genuine repentance and faith will be saved”

for the

remission = the cancellation of a debt, charge, or penalty. The penalty for sin is death, “but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

of

sins. = a transgression against divine law.

So baptism is a symbolic thing representing purification from sin, including the remission, or the cancellation of the penalty for sin (death), but it first must be preceded by repentance, a sincere regret or remorse for all past sins. (for “sin is the transgression of the law.”)

So is repentance simply saying “God I’m sorry for sinning”,

or is there something more to it?

Is repentance something I do or something that happens to me? Lee now tells a story about when he went to Canada to speak for a 4 day session, and he is using this to illustrate repentance. Watch it @28:30 – 38:00 mark.

Essentially what happened is he had a beautiful 4 day session with these people up in Canada and there were rich blessings poured out on the group. Then directly following the last session he returned to the Hotel he was staying in and struggled with whether or not to watch a little cable TV, and gave in.

The entire 90 minutes of this violent R rated action thriller he fought with the urge to turn it off, but couldn’t pull away from it. The instant it was over he killed it and turned around to see his Bible lying there on the bed.

The remorse he felt for pushing the Holy Spirit aside, directly after that four day session where God had so richly blessed, was more than he could handle, and he broke down sobbing with sincere regret.

He called his father at 3:00 am and told him what happened, and Morris said, “Far be it from me to try to comfort you right now. What you’re experiencing is repentance, and that’s a gift from God, & I’m not going to mess around with that”.

He continued, “Repentance is what God gives us when we realize that something we are doing is bringing pain to Him, and He helps us to see that we don’t want to bring pain to Him because we love Him & He loves us”. Then he said, “Lee, your in good hands, the nail scared ones”!

Repentance is a gift that is given to us as we spend time with Jesus day by day. He begins to fill us with Himself & shows us things & these kinds of repentance experiences happen more and more as time goes on. That’s an absolute fact!

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So God Leads us to repentance out of the goodness of His heart and it’s a gift right along with forgiveness and salvation. (“Lest any man should boast!”)

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Repentance is not something that we do, but it’s a gift from God that is given to us as we spend time with Jesus. As we see the contrast between us and Him, we understand that our failures break his heart and we’re not just sorry, but we really simply don’t want to disappoint Him anymore. He changes us.

Just remember that it will not happen for everything all at once in your life. But here and there, this thing there and that thing there will begin to disappear, and suddenly one day you’ll think wow, that old problem is non existent anymore! At least that’s how it’s been happening for me.

Jesus knows what pace to take you through it all, and the amazing part is that if you do as He asks you to, and let HIM do it ALL, then it is so simple that it kind of makes me feel guilty! He’s having to do all the work and I’m feeling kind of lazy over here. Then the other day I figured out the solution! I’m Retired!

So, are there any other things about baptism that we’ve never heard of? Are there any hidden mystical parallels we’ve missed?

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I like that! A whole new country!

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Well, that’s a wild translation. Lee used the Message Bible translation on this one. Of course we’re going to have to throw in a comparison of the NKJV, the ASV, the Amplified Bible and the Voice just to give us even more flavor! I color coded the sections of the verses to make it easier to compare them.

Romans 6:4 & 5

4 (KJV) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

4 (MKJV) Therefore we were buried with Him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father; even so we also should walk in newness of life.

4 (ASV) We were buried therefore with him through baptism unto death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.

4 (Amplified) We were buried therefore with Him by the baptism into death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glorious power of the Father, so we too might live and behave in newness of life.

4 (VOICE) Therefore, we were buried with Him through this baptism into death so that just as God the Father, in all His glory, resurrected the Anointed One, we, too, might walk confidently out of the grave into a new life.

4 (Message) When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace—a new life in a new land!

Now verse 5

5 (KJV) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

5 (MKJV) For if we have been joined together in the likeness of His death, we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection;

5 (ASV) For if we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection;

5 (Ampl) For if we have become one with Him by sharing a death like His, we shall also be [one with Him in sharing] His resurrection [by a new life lived for God].

5 (VOICE) To put it another way: if we have been united with Him to share in a death like His, don’t you understand that we will also share in His resurrection?

5 (Message) That’s what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus.

The first five translations compare quite well with one another. Verse 5 is pretty comparable in all six translations. Go ahead and pick your favorites, but here are mine…

4 (Message) When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace—a new life in a new land!

5 (Message) That’s what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus.

I like Lee’s pick as well. The chapter these two verses are snatched out of however, is a difficult read when you compare it to some of the premises being presented here. Here it is in the KJV, and after that in the Message.

It is worth the comparative read as the KJV raises the question in my mind about just what really IS taking place through baptism & what “Living under Grace” is being presented as seemingly an obstacle of argument later in the chapter. If you want to skip over this part then scroll to the next horizontal line.

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Romans 6, King James Version (KJV)

6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6, The Message (MSG)

6:1-3 So what do we do? Keep on sinning so God can keep on forgiving? I should hope not! If we’ve left the country where sin is sovereign, how can we still live in our old house there? Or didn’t you realize we packed up and left there for good? That is what happened in baptism.

4-5 When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace—a new life in a new land!

That’s what baptism into the life of Jesus means. When we are lowered into the water, it is like the burial of Jesus; when we are raised up out of the water, it is like the resurrection of Jesus.

6-11Each of us is raised into a light-filled world by our Father so that we can see where we’re going in our new grace-sovereign country. Could it be any clearer? Our old way of life was nailed to the cross with Christ, a decisive end to that sin-miserable life—no longer at sin’s every beck and call!

What we believe is this: If we get included in Christ’s sin-conquering death, we also get included in his life-saving resurrection. We know that when Jesus was raised from the dead it was a signal of the end of death-as-the-end. Never again will death have the last word.

When Jesus died, he took sin down with him, but alive he brings God down to us. From now on, think of it this way: Sin speaks a dead language that means nothing to you; God speaks your mother tongue, and you hang on every word. You are dead to sin and alive to God. That’s what Jesus did.

12-14 That means you must not give sin a vote in the way you conduct your lives. Don’t give it the time of day. Don’t even run little errands that are connected with that old way of life. Throw yourselves wholeheartedly and full-time—remember, you’ve been raised from the dead!—into God’s way of doing things. Sin can’t tell you how to live. After all, you’re not living under that old tyranny any longer. You’re living in the freedom of God.

15-18 So, since we’re out from under the old tyranny, does that mean we can live any old way we want? Since we’re free in the freedom of God, can we do anything that comes to mind? Hardly. You know well enough from your own experience that there are some acts of so-called freedom that destroy freedom.

Offer yourselves to sin, for instance, and it’s your last free act. But offer yourselves to the ways of God and the freedom never quits. All your lives you’ve let sin tell you what to do. But thank God you’ve started listening to a new master, one whose commands set you free to live openly in his freedom!

19 I’m using this freedom language because it’s easy to picture. You can readily recall, can’t you, how at one time the more you did just what you felt like doing—not caring about others, not caring about God—the worse your life became and the less freedom you had? And how much different is it now as you live in God’s freedom, your lives healed and expansive in holiness?

20-21 As long as you did what you felt like doing, ignoring God, you didn’t have to bother with right thinking or right living, or right anything for that matter. But do you call that a free life? What did you get out of it? Nothing you’re proud of now. Where did it get you? A dead end.

22-23 But now that you’ve found you don’t have to listen to sin tell you what to do, and have discovered the delight of listening to God telling you, what a surprise! A whole, healed, put-together life right now, with more and more of life on the way! Work hard for sin your whole life and your pension is death. But God’s gift is real life, eternal life, delivered by Jesus, our Master.

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So we discover that it is a symbol of washing away of sin, but also you are rising above the death of the sinful life into the new life that you have now chosen to live with Jesus.

Does that mean you are now perfect,

and that you will now & forever live a perfect life without failures?

I highly doubt it, but if you fail, you know that it is simply a bump in the road and that it is not going to separate you from your commitment to stick with your new life with Jesus. So you continually move onward and upward continually amazed and thrilled by all the improvements in your character that God continues to produce in you.

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The Bible clearly shows that Baptism is a submersion of the entire body under water clearly symbolizing the killing off & burial of the old sinful nature. Jesus did it as an example to us all. These days it tends to be more of a public display showing a new commitment to a life with Christ.

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What happens is that you take a public stand for Jesus.

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It is essentially a formal pledge that you are committed to be spending serious time on a new, lifesaving, daily growing, relationship with God.

Now for one more quiz. True or False.

  1. Spending time getting to know Jesus each day changes you.

  2. Getting to know Jesus as a child makes it more likely you’ll want to continue a friendship with Him as you get older.

  3. Getting to know Jesus increases the likelihood you will stay in church.

  4. Getting to know Jesus increases the likelihood that you will remain a Christian.

  5. Getting to know Jesus increases your chances of salvation.

  6. People getting to know Jesus is one of the best evidences of successful evangelism.

All True Answers.

Education is useless,

until you make it useful,

by using it.

If you die before you use it

it was worth nothing!

If you’ve learned something from these seminars don’t hesitate to use it!

The sooner you do the faster you’ll experience the Power of God working.

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